@Fungi well you do not have the best diplomatic strength. When you write in a Forum for Nim developers that what they are doing is entirely wrong and sucks a lot, then you will earn a lot of hate. You are right, performance is not everything. But Nim is not entirely about performance, it is about control in compiled environments. For me it is the only language that gives me the amount of freedom in terms of metaprogramming combined with the control over memory layouts that I need to control the rendering pipeline. If you don't do GPU rendering or some other high performance computing stuff. That is fine, but just because you don't need it, don't assume nobody will ever need it. Accept that you only know a tiny part of programming. 2017-04-19 11:14:36

The real execution speed concept is well- and carefully-designed algorithm, relying on compiler optimization is for stupid programmers.

I like this meme.

2017-04-19 11:48:47

@Fungi

A fully static and compiled language environment is not better in any sense.. than a fully dynamic and interpreted.. language environment.

Bad compiled code can fail at compile time, bad interpreted code fails at runtime. If I have complete test coverage or a mathematical proof of code correctness, the latter is not a problem. In real life, I don't always get that. Then, I am ready to trade some flexibility for the additional safety offered by the compiler.

compilers impose restirctions, you are forced to use macros, which are just kludge, but in a pure interpreted language (PicoLisp for example) you can simply use functions,..

Homoiconic syntax and seamless meta-programming, fair point. AFAIK, the price you pay for that is the syntax of the language directly reflecting the structure of the AST. Most programmers seem to think that this makes it less human-readable.

"They are focusing on machines. But in fact we need to focus on humans, on how humans care about doing programming or operating the application of the machines. We are the masters. They are the slaves."

To my experience, software development is about making machines do what humans want. To achieve that, one has to understand both sides and and then bridge the differences between them. Focusing on the human side is IMHO just as unhelpful as focusing on the machine's side.

2017-04-19 12:50:25
  • Could you make decent and fastest web app/server using PURE Python, Ruby or JS? NOPE.
  • Could you make decent modern AAA game using PURE Python, Ruby or JS? NOPE.
  • Could you program IOT devices using PURE Python, Ruby or JS? NOPE.
  • Could you make Operation System/Kernel Driver using PURE Python, Ruby or JS? NOPE.

So all of this interpreted languages are not general-purpose languages, because of such limitations.

2017-04-19 13:16:04
bpr

Some words of advice. Now where's that ban hammer?

Seriously, I'm a bit sad that the book is delayed further. I'm an old guy and I still like to kill trees. It would make me less sad if I knew Nim 1.0 would be fast on the heels of the print book release

2017-04-19 14:28:43

@Fungi: Repeat this mantra: Programming Language is a tool! Say it about 100x times a day, you'll see things better and clearer . Also, you'll love peace more than hatred

Every tool is on its user, skilled user would view the tool is wonderful, unskilled user would view the tool is insufficient.

Guess you had quite bad time and hadn't quite time to cool your head.

2017-04-19 15:20:43

Argh, least you could have done @Fungi is create a new thread instead of derailing this one. But never matter.

Good news is, here is an article with an excerpt from my book: http://freecontent.manning.com/delving-into-nim

2017-04-19 19:57:22

@Fungi I won't discuss compiled vs. dynamic languages, because the topic is obviously going nowhere, and you and I both have better things we can be doing.

However your attack on me and @jibal's person is not only a very low blow, but IMO unfounded.

"you are ignorant + arrogant, which makes you the worst people."

Let's look up ignorant, shall we?

lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned:

This can be disputed.

in your eyes, I'm obviously lacking in knowledge because according to you interpreted languages are the best and everything else has no purpose.

However, we have multiple skilled and knowledgeable programmers who agree/attest to what @jibal and I have said.

If you came into a court of law saying I killed a man and I came with 4 other people saying I didn't, who do you think would win?

What about arrogant? Let's look that one up as well.

making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud:

Let's see, what assumptions did I make?

All of the facts I stated I can get sources for and are the truth.

Did I ever claim to be smarter or more knowledgeable than you? Not that I can tell, I just disputed your claims.

This site: http://ronrosstoday.com/arrogance/ has a great guide on how to detect arrogance.


I really want argue against some of your points in your second post, but I won't feed the troll anymore.

I hereby swear that I will not reply to this thread after this post.

2017-04-19 23:49:41

replying non-technical people sucks. @hcorion, @jibal, listen, you are ignorant + arrogant, which makes you the worst people.

Some psychopathic imbecile thinks I'm "nontechnical". That's funny.

ManfredLotz: Hope they will ban you here.

Behold:

 Online	19/04/17 11:43 UTC
 Status	Troll

2017-04-25 10:38:36

Some psychopathic imbecile thinks I'm "nontechnical". That's funny.

That's simply uncalled for. Please don't write like that, no matter if you believe that the person is a troll.

2017-04-25 16:29:11